Click this to return to the normal page
Tanek Xavier (8:29:24 PM): yo
vectorc5 (8:29:32 PM): ahhh, AIM 4.7 n_n
vectorc5 (8:29:35 PM): what's up?
Tanek Xavier (8:29:41 PM): Sorry if this is nearly the same subject as being discussed in the chat..but..here goes nothin
vectorc5 (8:29:56 PM): o_o waitwaitwait!
vectorc5 (8:30:02 PM): Are you gonna offer something new?
Tanek Xavier (8:30:14 PM): It came to my attention that there may be some things we could do to make the rules a little more specific, logically
vectorc5 (8:30:51 PM): give it a shot.
Tanek Xavier (8:31:10 PM): Well...there's so much talk about how people are talking crap about other people's roleplay..am I right?
Tanek Xavier (8:31:31 PM): What if we made it so things liek that don't happen?
Tanek Xavier (8:31:36 PM): Now, this may sound liek old news
Tanek Xavier (8:31:39 PM): but hear me out..
Tanek Xavier (8:32:26 PM): Many of those who left for HAC complained to me about how ever rp they had, the plot was being given away, hints were being made..and all by people who had nothign to do with the rp that was going on.
Tanek Xavier (8:32:47 PM): if we make it so that those who aren't involved cannot give such hints...eh..basically
Tanek Xavier (8:32:53 PM): basically..it's like this
Tanek Xavier (8:33:07 PM): If you aren't involved with an rp..or don't have anything nice to say about it..don't say anythign at all
Tanek Xavier (8:33:11 PM): that sort of thing
vectorc5 (8:33:20 PM): o_o ...
vectorc5 (8:33:40 PM): Ok. So, if I'm reading this right, the complaint is that people are commenting on running RPs.
vectorc5 (8:33:48 PM): And a person in the running RP doesn't like it.
vectorc5 (8:33:51 PM): right?
Tanek Xavier (8:33:55 PM): Sort of
Tanek Xavier (8:33:56 PM): yeah
vectorc5 (8:34:08 PM): So. What you're saying is; it should be against the rules to do that?
Tanek Xavier (8:34:18 PM): in a sense..yes
vectorc5 (8:34:42 PM): So, as that stands, the running RP would recieve no new input from outside sources?
That doesn't sound kind of bland to you?
Tanek Xavier (8:34:44 PM): I figure it like this...people who have nothign to contribute, if they aren't goign to contribute ideas, should be allowed to say anythign at all
Tanek Xavier (8:34:59 PM): if you want change..you have to speak up..and that doesn't just involve saying something bad about an rp
vectorc5 (8:35:29 PM): But if it's against the rules to comment on a running RP for fear of giving something away or offending someone, you can't very well speak up, can you?
Tanek Xavier (8:35:41 PM): from what I'm hearing..it's all negative things..and no one seems to be saying anythign that could contribute to the rp, so it makes people think that it's jsut that no one wants it around?
Tanek Xavier (8:35:58 PM): Actually..you can speak up without giving away plots to people
vectorc5 (8:36:04 PM): Oh, ok.
So you can only speak up if you want to say a compliment about the running RP?
Tanek Xavier (8:36:12 PM): it's what (insert messenger service here) is for....
Tanek Xavier (8:37:01 PM): Coming to someone and saying "Hey, Not to be rude, but this rp needs something..." and then give your ideas, than to say "Hey! This RP sucks!" and then leave it at that..o0
Tanek Xavier (8:37:21 PM): I shoudl say it soudns better, shouldn't I?
Tanek Xavier (8:37:28 PM): it sounds better than saying..yeah
Tanek Xavier (8:38:10 PM): The rule about treating others as you would expect to be treated..in my eyes....is being ignored...
vectorc5 (8:38:30 PM): True. Much more helpful.
The motive is what I'm looking at. Saying "Hey this rp sucks!" What's wrong with that?
Well, it offers nothing more than an opinion and it gives no solutions, right? It also has a tendency to offend.
Tanek Xavier (8:39:06 PM): Indeed.
Tanek Xavier (8:39:13 PM): That's what I've been trying to say. ^^
vectorc5 (8:39:45 PM): So, what I'm seeing here is offering an opinion that has a tendency to offend would be forbidden?
Tanek Xavier (8:39:55 PM): No..oo
vectorc5 (8:40:02 PM): o_o ... kay. I'm still missing it.
Tanek Xavier (8:40:09 PM): THigns that not only have a tendency..but are actually MEANT to be offensive..o0
vectorc5 (8:40:18 PM): Oooh.
vectorc5 (8:40:33 PM): Ok, so the thought behind the words is what we're working on.
Tanek Xavier (8:40:39 PM): YEah
Tanek Xavier (8:41:12 PM): It's like saying "Hey this RP sucks balls!" In a manner meant to be offensive...
vectorc5 (8:41:35 PM): The only problem with that is the only person who knows what's behind their words is whoever said them.
Now, I don't support the notion that saying something for the sole purpose of pissing someone off is acceptable, and having moderators is designed to keep that from happening.
vectorc5 (8:41:52 PM): HOWEVER, I can't permanently ban someone for occasionally hurting someone's feelings, now can I?
Tanek Xavier (8:42:03 PM): Basically..I understand that it's jsut words...but some words, which, when strung together to perform sentences, can be verey hurtful on purpose
Tanek Xavier (8:42:54 PM): When someone blatantly says "This rp is boring" you can't really misinterparate that...
vectorc5 (8:43:01 PM): *sigh* c_c This I know. I also think trying to protect people from getting hurt inspires weakness and takes power away from the individual to deal with their own problems, thereby encouraging them to remain in a child-like mental state.
Tanek Xavier (8:43:18 PM): Some people need that protection..c.c.
Tanek Xavier (8:43:32 PM): we need protection from bad people...that's why laws were created..
vectorc5 (8:43:34 PM): That said, it's still on the books that being disruptive intentionally is against the rules, anyone can read the rules and see that IF they read the rules as a whole document and not line-by-line.
Tanek Xavier (8:44:05 PM): ....Remember..there are people like Joseph Cain who will do anythign to find a loophole, jsut to stay in the chat...
vectorc5 (8:44:15 PM): Laws aren't created to govern what you're allowed to say. Laws are created to govern what you're allowed to do. Comparing rules of conduct in a chat with laws of a country is a faulty viewpoint.
Tanek Xavier (8:44:42 PM): Ehhh...You KNOW I have a point somewhere in here...I know you do..><;
Tanek Xavier (8:44:59 PM): It's jsut wording it propperly that flummoxes me..^^;
vectorc5 (8:45:00 PM): Your point is when people say mean things on purpose they should be... what?
vectorc5 (8:45:05 PM): banned?
Tanek Xavier (8:45:09 PM): reprimanded?
Tanek Xavier (8:45:15 PM): Given warnings?
Tanek Xavier (8:45:24 PM): There is always the three strieks route to go..o0
vectorc5 (8:45:25 PM): And you're not seeing this happening?
Tanek Xavier (8:45:37 PM): *Shakes his head*....Not really...o.o
Tanek Xavier (8:45:50 PM): If you'll notice..I was the only one getting onto Felxer for fanning the flames...
vectorc5 (8:45:56 PM): Because, I'll tell you, in the past few weeks I've seen people giving each other good-natured ribbing and not whining about it. I've seen no actively, intentionally hurtful statements.
Tanek Xavier (8:45:57 PM): other than gurubot at the end..oo
vectorc5 (8:46:20 PM): Was Felxer saying things that were intentionally hurtful?
Tanek Xavier (8:46:31 PM): I believe he was...
Tanek Xavier (8:46:48 PM): You were there, I'd expect you to pay more attention than even I..you are, after all, the administrator..
Tanek Xavier (8:46:49 PM): but
Tanek Xavier (8:47:00 PM): I can understand you were in the heat of "battle" XD
Tanek Xavier (8:47:23 PM):
Felxer: Because the last 24 hours is all that ever happens in there? o_o Anyway, I'll be back in a bit. *gone*
vectorc5 (8:47:31 PM): o_O that's mean?
Tanek Xavier (8:47:32 PM): thigns similar but not limited to that..o0
Tanek Xavier (8:47:40 PM): it can be construed as such
vectorc5 (8:47:40 PM): That was a counterpoint.
vectorc5 (8:47:51 PM): The NN said "You're not looking at the last 24 hours then" and he responded with what you said.
Tanek Xavier (8:47:53 PM): Dunn ask me why..but I get the feeling lots of people misinterparate things..
Tanek Xavier (8:48:07 PM): I may be included in those things..but I try to take a logical step toward resolving problems..
Tanek Xavier (8:48:49 PM): there were things before that..I'm not expecting you to take my word for it..my memory really bites..and had I been thinking about that rather than trying to keep him from being a butthead and making things worse, I'd have made some screenshots
Tanek Xavier (8:50:20 PM): Know that, I, as someone who's been in FIC since before it was a pipedream (NBamely it's earliest PSC days) I want nothign more than to see people roleplay harmoniously...
vectorc5 (8:50:44 PM): I think harmony has it's place, but not at the expense of freedom of expression.
Tanek Xavier (8:51:32 PM): There are easily irked people...while you are neglecting their freedoms, you're allowing other peoples freedoms to overrun the freedoms of others...
Tanek Xavier (8:51:38 PM): there has to be a line drawn somewhere..
Tanek Xavier (8:51:44 PM): it can't be one way or the highway...
vectorc5 (8:51:57 PM): What freedoms am I neglecting, exactly?
Tanek Xavier (8:52:20 PM): It's...complicated..
Tanek Xavier (8:52:29 PM): basically we're torn here..
Tanek Xavier (8:52:39 PM): we have those who are happy to offend, no matter whom they offend..
Tanek Xavier (8:52:47 PM): then you have those who aren't happy about being offended
Tanek Xavier (8:52:54 PM): coming up with the compromise is the hard part...
vectorc5 (8:53:08 PM): is anyone happy about being offended?
vectorc5 (8:53:13 PM): Is happiness a right?
vectorc5 (8:53:27 PM): Last question in the list: is your happiness based on another person's actions?
Tanek Xavier (8:53:31 PM): Happiness is somethign everyone eserves...
Tanek Xavier (8:53:46 PM): well..save murderers rapists and racists..c.c.
vectorc5 (8:53:55 PM): Wrong, sir. Happiness is something everyone has an opportunity for. Those who take the opportunity deserve it
Tanek Xavier (8:55:11 PM): And, what? Everyone else is denied this happiness because anothe rperson's version of happiness is to hurt the feelings of others?
Tanek Xavier (8:55:14 PM): How is that right?
vectorc5 (8:55:32 PM): Who controls whether or not someones feelings are hurt?
vectorc5 (8:55:38 PM): WHo, in the end, has power of a persons mind?
Tanek Xavier (8:56:01 PM): no one
vectorc5 (8:56:03 PM): o_o *replaces "of" with "over"* dunno how that happened.
vectorc5 (8:56:04 PM): Wrong.
Tanek Xavier (8:56:12 PM): but setting down some guidelines would be nice
vectorc5 (8:56:14 PM): The person who's mind it is has control over it. o_o
Tanek Xavier (8:56:49 PM): I mean come on..if you were in on a really awesome roleplay...aaannnnd someone told you how it went, how it ended, and what the morale of the story was before you could get to the rally good parts....wouldn't you be a little bit perturbed?
vectorc5 (8:57:04 PM): How would someone know that?
vectorc5 (8:57:08 PM): Has that EVER happened?
Tanek Xavier (8:57:20 PM): Accordsing to those in HAC it has..
vectorc5 (8:57:39 PM): Well that's absurd. It simply can NOT be a good role-play if the whole stupid thing is written out verbatim.
vectorc5 (8:57:55 PM): You should have a begining, middle and end GOAL, sure, but how it happens?
vectorc5 (8:57:56 PM): Jeeze.
Tanek Xavier (8:58:16 PM): Some parts of a roleplay NEED to be planned out
vectorc5 (8:58:33 PM): Granted. Parts.
Tanek Xavier (8:58:36 PM): I mean...take this for instance..
vectorc5 (8:58:52 PM): The question is, how would someone know about those parts in order to ruin it for someone else if that person wasn't involved in the first place?
Tanek Xavier (8:59:29 PM): some asshole decides that, in the middle of your roleplay fight, to blurt out the weakness of yoru character. This enables other people to know..and there are those without conscience who will immediately take advantage of this weakness, just so they can beat you..and the person who blurted out gains satisfaction from that
vectorc5 (8:59:37 PM): How did he know?
vectorc5 (8:59:52 PM): If he's not involved in the RP, how could he possibly know?
Tanek Xavier (9:00:13 PM): by watching the rp progress and making alusions to it.
Tanek Xavier (9:00:21 PM): or, by someone leaking the information
vectorc5 (9:01:08 PM): Observing the RP and figuring out where it was going?
vectorc5 (9:01:26 PM): So the person involved couldn't figure it out?
Tanek Xavier (9:01:46 PM): Uhmm..hello? There are some things about my characters that I want people to figure out for themselves
Tanek Xavier (9:01:51 PM): evne if I have to simplify it..
vectorc5 (9:02:10 PM): Come on dude. o_o You can't expect me to agree that someone deducing the result of an RP and suggesting it publically COMPLETELY RUINS someones RP experience.
Tanek Xavier (9:02:23 PM): but that makes it MY choice. It's my rp, and When I want things revealed, that's when they should be revealed. and by whoim...Not by someone who hasn't even said one line in my rp...
Tanek Xavier (9:02:31 PM): and i'm using myself as merely an example
Tanek Xavier (9:02:48 PM): No, but they can ruin the rp if they give away too much
Tanek Xavier (9:02:56 PM): It's happened to me FOUR times, Andy....4
vectorc5 (9:03:25 PM): You >_< ... CAN'T... DECLARE... OWNERSHIP of an RP!

It's a public experience! People act in it, people improvise, they change things, they make things better!
Do you have a problem with it when someone improvises something in one of "your" RPs?
Tanek Xavier (9:03:31 PM): Every tiem I came up with something new to add to an rp, someone has jsut, blown it right out of the water becaue thigns I wanted to save for shock factor and whatnot were blurted out
Tanek Xavier (9:03:47 PM): No...but you CAN declare ownership of the idea behind it.....
Tanek Xavier (9:03:50 PM): Wait
vectorc5 (9:03:53 PM): Well maybe youshould have kept it under your hat, eh?
Tanek Xavier (9:03:55 PM): that came out wayyy wrong..o0
vectorc5 (9:04:00 PM): o_o kay.
Tanek Xavier (9:04:22 PM): I did...c.c.it's jsut that I'm not the best person when it comes to plot evelopement, so it was given away more easily than I had wanted..
Tanek Xavier (9:04:50 PM): a roleplay can be ruined for some people..they like the fact of not knowing what's going to happen because it helps to add some sort of realism to the roleplay
vectorc5 (9:05:09 PM): o_o Well you just gotta roll with it, man. It's a vibrant, active alive experience. You have to be ready and willing to change it if it gets dull or you think it's dead.
vectorc5 (9:05:15 PM): Change is how it works.
Tanek Xavier (9:06:51 PM): Still...
Tanek Xavier (9:06:56 PM): what about offensive behavior?
Tanek Xavier (9:07:07 PM): being malicious for the helluv it?
Tanek Xavier (9:07:23 PM): I mean..if you aren't part of a roleplay, yo7u really shouldn't be allowed to give away plots and developements...
vectorc5 (9:07:34 PM): Offensive behavior is an unfortunate fact of life.
Willful maliciousness, saying things that are OBVIOUSLY aimed to actually HURT someone, is to be discouraged.
vectorc5 (9:07:52 PM): Your Felxer examples, however, don't fall into that category. I do know what you were trying to say though.
Tanek Xavier (9:08:05 PM): And things that you know in your heart to be offensive, but don't look offensive, should be ignored?
vectorc5 (9:08:31 PM): Again, the only person who controls whether or not you get offened is you.
Tanek Xavier (9:09:05 PM): I don't know what else to say...I've come up with some sort of logical thing..and nothing works...
vectorc5 (9:10:26 PM): o-o well you've presented some arguments. The only problem is they depend on authority figures taking responsibility for someone's reaction to something and I think that's a slippery slope.
Tanek Xavier (9:10:47 PM): Why Because no one is willing to take that responsibility?
Tanek Xavier (9:10:55 PM): A mod can't expect to be popular...
vectorc5 (9:10:57 PM): No.
Tanek Xavier (9:11:04 PM): a mod will always offend someone for whatever they do
Tanek Xavier (9:11:17 PM): after all, I don't know anyone in FIC who doesn't have friends there...
vectorc5 (9:11:23 PM): Because it's taking the responsibility away from the individuals. It's making people think it's someone elses job to make sure they don't get offended.
vectorc5 (9:11:39 PM): it's your job to make sure you're not offended. If you take offense to something, you give that something power.
Tanek Xavier (9:11:40 PM): And when peopel can't realize this, you let it go on?
vectorc5 (9:11:48 PM): If it offends you, then you obviously disagree, so why do you empower it?
Tanek Xavier (9:11:49 PM): How does that make for a viable solution?
vectorc5 (9:12:03 PM): People CAN realize it. People won't realize it as long as someone plays mommy for them.
Tanek Xavier (9:12:03 PM): Okay...put it this way
Tanek Xavier (9:12:09 PM): a person says something offensive...
Tanek Xavier (9:12:14 PM): it hurts another person..
Tanek Xavier (9:12:21 PM): they say somethign else offensive...
Tanek Xavier (9:12:35 PM): and it goes back and forth until there's this bullshit battle that no one wants...
vectorc5 (9:12:38 PM): ... ok, are you not getting me here? o_O
Tanek Xavier (9:12:49 PM): *Sighs*.....
Tanek Xavier (9:12:58 PM): When was the last time someone was banned?
vectorc5 (9:13:01 PM): If that happens then it happens. o-o A mod will hopefully break up the argument between the children.
Tanek Xavier (9:13:25 PM): and what of those who are disrespecftul to the mods?
vectorc5 (9:13:27 PM): That doesn't change the fact that people shouldn't be protected from their own feelings. It's your job to control your feelings.
Tanek Xavier (9:13:41 PM): Say, a mod reprimands them, aaannnd they continue talking back
Tanek Xavier (9:13:44 PM): what then?
vectorc5 (9:13:52 PM): They get banned. o_O
vectorc5 (9:14:00 PM): duh. "mods have the final word" is still in the rules.
Tanek Xavier (9:14:11 PM): *Shake shis head*..I've heard too much of this kind of thing happening and it not being addressed...
vectorc5 (9:14:18 PM): Well that's the mods fault.
vectorc5 (9:14:39 PM): I can't control the mods directly, if they decide to argue with someone rather than to stick a ban-sock in their mouth it's their own stupid fault.
Tanek Xavier (9:14:40 PM): And for some reason, eveyrone complains about Eric...soemtimes the others in the little clique or whateve rthat he's in, but mostly it's WEric i'm hearing about
vectorc5 (9:14:54 PM): Eric is a scapegoat.
Tanek Xavier (9:15:01 PM): For what? o0
vectorc5 (9:15:40 PM): Whenever someone says something nasty, they try to trace it back to Eric, apparently. It's either "Eric's crew" or "eric's friends" or what-have-you, it doesn't change one simple fact:
People have freedom to say what they want.
People have freedom to control how they react.
vectorc5 (9:15:56 PM): I refuse to pander to people who want to pass off responsibility for their reactions onto some other person.
Tanek Xavier (9:17:09 PM): And so you don't think that the offending persons should have to take responsibility for THEIR acvtions?
Tanek Xavier (9:17:21 PM): Most certainly not jsutice, Andy...and you knwo that as well as I do
vectorc5 (9:17:26 PM): Their actions? What action?
vectorc5 (9:17:29 PM): They SAID SOMETHING.
vectorc5 (9:17:35 PM): That's a freedom! It's what we all get to do!
Tanek Xavier (9:17:43 PM): Peopel who blatantly ignore the basics of the rule of treating peopel how they expevct to be treated should be dealt with propperly
vectorc5 (9:18:07 PM): I guarantee you that whenever someone, let's use Eric, says something to pick a fight they want a fight. o_o
vectorc5 (9:18:23 PM): That's the fundamental flaw with the golden rule.
vectorc5 (9:18:28 PM): Sometimes people want different things.
vectorc5 (9:18:38 PM): AGAIN, that doesn't control whether or not they get what they want.
Tanek Xavier (9:18:42 PM): But you know what you meant when you laid down that rule..
Tanek Xavier (9:18:51 PM): ~I~ certainly know what you meant..
Tanek Xavier (9:19:12 PM): You were expecting people to see the "Be civil" part of that rule
Tanek Xavier (9:19:13 PM): and they didn't
vectorc5 (9:20:14 PM): *shrug* o_o Well that's just how it is. Expecting people to play nice is a pipe dream and it'll never EVER happen. Folks just have to grow up about it. Let it ride. Control yourself and control whether or not you take offense. Controlling yourself takes away ALL power from the person trying to bother you.
Tanek Xavier (9:20:54 PM): Ah....YOu have a point...
vectorc5 (9:21:04 PM): o-o it's what I've been trying to say, boss.
Tanek Xavier (9:21:08 PM): but you know, as well as I do, that there are people who will take offense at jsut about naything..
vectorc5 (9:21:16 PM): Well I can never satisfy those people.
vectorc5 (9:21:24 PM): BF is one of those people. Conrad to an extent is too.
vectorc5 (9:21:27 PM): Can't help them.
Tanek Xavier (9:21:39 PM): No...but you could listen to what your mods have to say from time to time.a.fter all, you DID choose them and make them mods..
vectorc5 (9:22:10 PM): I do listen to my mods. Unfortunately they suggest the same thought-police approach you were selling at the beginning of this conversation.
Tanek Xavier (9:22:10 PM): I've been told that several mods, all of which have, at one point in time, come to you about Eric....
vectorc5 (9:22:29 PM): Listen to mods doesn't equate to do what your mods say, you know that.
Tanek Xavier (9:22:52 PM): Andy...when that many people come to you about one person.....what are you supposed to do?
Tanek Xavier (9:23:16 PM): you're supposed to think maybe ther'es somethign to what they're saying...and maybe even see for yourself, rather than jsut play it off liek it's not happening..oo
vectorc5 (9:23:26 PM): I will -not- allow the policing of thoughts and emotions. It's idiocy. people have complete control over their reactions to things people say, an authority figure has NO BUSINESS interfering in your right to say what you want and think what you want or try to protect you from some bogeyman.
vectorc5 (9:23:39 PM): Freedom, man. o_o
Tanek Xavier (9:23:59 PM): Freedom...it's all comeing back to freedom
vectorc5 (9:24:04 PM): Sure is.
Tanek Xavier (9:24:19 PM): freedom is good...but what is freedom if the peopel these freedoms are used against can't be happy as well?
vectorc5 (9:24:33 PM): With freedom comes responsibility, responsibility to yourself. Responsibility to control your own happiness, your own offenses and your own choices.
Tanek Xavier (9:24:42 PM): There has to be a middle..not one way or the other..balance man..it's about balance..not jsut freedom
vectorc5 (9:24:50 PM): If you don't want to be responsible for whether or not you take offense to something, well, you'll never be happy.
vectorc5 (9:25:04 PM): That's just all there is to it. If you don't take responsibility for your own happiness you will NEVER have it.
Tanek Xavier (9:25:21 PM): Me..I dont' take offense to much...but that's because I'm neutral in all things..I try to see two sides of the coin, not just one..
Tanek Xavier (9:25:52 PM): I try to get peopel to harmonize and not be offensive by at least asking first..
vectorc5 (9:25:53 PM): I'm the opposite. o_o I take sides and stands, but keeping a cool head and not getting offended is vital to expressing your point of view and getting people on your side.
vectorc5 (9:26:07 PM): You keep saying "offensive."
vectorc5 (9:26:24 PM): I keep saying people have control over whether or not they decide to take offense to something.
vectorc5 (9:26:28 PM): You see our division here?
Tanek Xavier (9:26:52 PM): And what am I supposed to say?
vectorc5 (9:27:04 PM): Well I'll just put it to you in a question.
Tanek Xavier (9:27:10 PM): Am I supposed to go on like everythign is hunky dory when it's obviously not? o0
vectorc5 (9:27:14 PM): Do you think people shouldn't have control over their own minds?
Tanek Xavier (9:27:44 PM): Yes..their minds, their thoughts..but htye should take into consideration (If they have any conscience) what they are going to say to someone...
vectorc5 (9:27:51 PM): WAITWAIT!
vectorc5 (9:28:24 PM): Stick with me here. Leave the "shoulds" out of your thoughts. Should is a word for children, it's impractical. Let's stick with the firm and concrete here. o-o Kay? Lemmee go from what you said before should.
Tanek Xavier (9:28:51 PM): Why? So you can win?
Tanek Xavier (9:29:02 PM): Or so you don't have to deal with it?
vectorc5 (9:29:02 PM): They have control over their minds. That means, yes, when someone says something they don't like they have control and, yes, responsibility over their reaction.
Yes?
vectorc5 (9:29:09 PM): NO, because SHOULD IS IMPRACTICAL.
vectorc5 (9:29:17 PM): Should? What is should? A dream.
vectorc5 (9:29:28 PM): Answer my question, plz.
Tanek Xavier (9:29:50 PM): Fine then..To a point.....yes
vectorc5 (9:29:58 PM): Ok.o-o last one, I promise.
Tanek Xavier (9:30:09 PM): Everythign a person thinks..is theirs to think..sure, they can say it....but some thigns can get you arrested...
Tanek Xavier (9:30:30 PM): and sure..I hate the police as much as the next guy, since most of the cops make it a bad rap for the rest
vectorc5 (9:30:37 PM): And that's a great flaw in our society. Thought-policing. A huge, gaping flaw. But that's beside the point.
vectorc5 (9:30:42 PM): STOP THE TANGENT. o_o
Tanek Xavier (9:30:46 PM): and my own personal reasons..c.c....had a gun stuck in my face by a rookie when I was 12.. ^^;
Tanek Xavier (9:30:57 PM): Tangent? o0
vectorc5 (9:31:10 PM): Yeah, taking the conversation in a different path inadvertently. o_o
Tanek Xavier (9:31:19 PM): Ah
vectorc5 (9:31:20 PM): they call 'em tangents.
vectorc5 (9:31:24 PM): don't know why, really. o-o
vectorc5 (9:31:33 PM): A tangent is geometry... @_o now I'm on a tangent.
vectorc5 (9:31:40 PM): Back to the point! :O yes.
Tanek Xavier (9:31:45 PM): c.c...isn't there a piece of hardware caleld the Tangent? o.o
Tanek Xavier (9:31:48 PM): but yes..bakc to the point
vectorc5 (9:31:49 PM): XD
vectorc5 (9:31:52 PM): *cackle*
Tanek Xavier (9:32:20 PM): Well, Andy...what would you suggest be done?
vectorc5 (9:32:29 PM): What do I suggest?
Tanek Xavier (9:32:39 PM): Cause every time I'v ecome up with idea's, you find some way to send them out the door..oo
vectorc5 (9:32:56 PM): I, personally, think the rules should be designed to protect people's actual rights. Prevention of theft.
Tanek Xavier (9:33:05 PM): in every society, comrpomise occurs....compromise for peace...
vectorc5 (9:33:09 PM): And protection of my property, ie: prevention of flooding.
Tanek Xavier (9:34:18 PM): Well....I made suggestions...
Tanek Xavier (9:34:36 PM): You could makeit a guideline at least?
Tanek Xavier (9:34:49 PM): not a code...more like a guideline.. XD
vectorc5 (9:35:12 PM): I think controlling what people say? I think that has no place in law. People have the right to say whatever they want. What they DO, that's different, you can't do whatever you want.

But what you say? That's your right. That's our most important right! Expression is the forum of new ideas and freedom of thought.

That said, I won't legislate what people are allowed to say, both because that limits personal freedoms as well as because it takes power away from individuals over their own minds and their ability to control their emotions and most importantly whether or not they take offense and empower their verbal (or textual, in our case) adversary.
vectorc5 (9:35:54 PM): o-o what kind of guideline?
Tanek Xavier (9:36:21 PM): TO at least try and be civil?
Tanek Xavier (9:36:36 PM): Civility is what everyone wants..nobody wants negative conflict
vectorc5 (9:36:48 PM): :\ Well that's a societal pressure, really.
Tanek Xavier (9:37:00 PM): It still wouldn't hurt to make it a guideline..oo
vectorc5 (9:37:27 PM): I mean, people want others to be civil, that's not really anything you can make a rule or a law about. o_o If the majority wants civility, the majority can pressure the minority into it or ignore them.
Tanek Xavier (9:37:45 PM): but that's wrong...
vectorc5 (9:37:57 PM): which part?
Tanek Xavier (9:37:59 PM): That's like the Jedi using "The Jedi Mind trick" For self defensive....
vectorc5 (9:38:03 PM): No no no.
vectorc5 (9:38:09 PM): This is the opposite of that.
vectorc5 (9:38:14 PM): The polar opposite. o_O
Tanek Xavier (9:38:20 PM): but you know what I meant with that, right?
vectorc5 (9:38:32 PM): You want something in writing saying you have to be nice to each other.
vectorc5 (9:38:42 PM): er, civil.
Tanek Xavier (9:38:43 PM): no...
Tanek Xavier (9:38:53 PM): I'm talkign about the jedi thing..what did you think I meant by that?
vectorc5 (9:39:05 PM): o_O Taking control of someones mind to get your way, that's what a jedi mind trick is.
vectorc5 (9:39:10 PM): o_O... so apparently I don't.
Tanek Xavier (9:39:15 PM): exactly..a darkside trait..c.c.
vectorc5 (9:39:21 PM): >< holy crap, that's what you meant?
Tanek Xavier (9:39:27 PM): *Nods*...
vectorc5 (9:39:45 PM): How is saying social pressure is what governs civility anything at all similar to taking control of someone's mind?
Tanek Xavier (9:39:56 PM): Peopel proclaiming to want balance, yet they use the force to influence the minds of others, forcing their will over the wills of othrs to get what they want..
Tanek Xavier (9:40:22 PM): It's a basic alliteration..
Tanek Xavier (9:40:40 PM): what I'm saying is this....
vectorc5 (9:40:45 PM): do tell.
Tanek Xavier (9:40:55 PM): There are people in FIC who didn't want those who now inhabit HAC to be there..
Tanek Xavier (9:41:09 PM): so they basically used their words and deeds to influence those who left, to make them want to leave
vectorc5 (9:41:17 PM): o_O ...
Tanek Xavier (9:41:44 PM): Basically..getting someone to leave a palce they've called "home" for so long by devious methods is wrong..
vectorc5 (9:41:53 PM): Nobody actively forced anybody to do anything. people SAID things (freedom of speech) and other people decided to empower them, take offense to them, and leave.
vectorc5 (9:42:28 PM): That's just a fact of life. Some people are either weak minded and won't control themselves, and some people just don't want to.
vectorc5 (9:42:33 PM): I can't pander to those people.
Tanek Xavier (9:42:39 PM): liek the case with Joseph Cain, where he was actively egging people on to get them banned and whatnot
vectorc5 (9:43:01 PM): I got stuff to do dude, and we're just going in circles. Wanna call a close tot his one?
Tanek Xavier (9:43:39 PM): Well..sure..but please, Andy..come up withs oemthing that will help get things back to normal..I hate the way FIC is divided...it...really sucks..to say the least
vectorc5 (9:43:54 PM): Good debate. Later chief.
Tanek Xavier (9:44:08 PM): Later
vectorc5 (9:47:01 PM): oh oh, one more thing, would it bug you if I posted this log on the website as a point-counterpoint to the whole my way vs the HAC way debate?
vectorc5 (9:47:12 PM): I think it might help clear up some confussing.
vectorc5 (9:53:32 PM): :D I'll take that as a yes! You can tell me to take it down if you don't like it. o-o *nod* cool. *save!*
Tanek Xavier (10:00:16 PM): I thinkt hat would be fair
Tanek Xavier (10:00:28 PM): so long as I'm allowed to use it to get some feedback as well?
vectorc5 (10:00:30 PM): okidoke. o-o cool. thnx.
vectorc5 (10:00:37 PM): Sure, no problem. Just leave it unedited.
Tanek Xavier (10:00:42 PM): allrighty
vectorc5 (10:00:42 PM): KAYS?
vectorc5 (10:00:44 PM): xD
Tanek Xavier (10:00:44 PM): and you know me
Tanek Xavier (10:00:47 PM): I edit nothing..o0
vectorc5 (10:00:58 PM): cool. Thanks. o-o I'ma save it now. Again. XD